Discovering the 7mm-08 Remington

Several years ago my hunting partner began speaking praises of the 7mm-08 Remington. At the time, other than having heard of the round, I knew nothing about it. Over the years I started to do some research, and as things often work out, I became increasingly impressed with the round. I now own and hunt with a 7mm-08.

When reading hunting forums, one more often than not comes across the magnum crowd who refer to the 7mm-08 as a great "kids" or "lady's" round. After all, it's quite short and very limited in recoil. Adding to this theme is that so many 7mm-08 rifles come in compact size with short barrels, which actually do it a great disservice.

It's not until one begins to dig a bit deeper into the actual ballistics of the caliber, that it causes a definite raising of the eyebrows.  The little 7mm-08 is definitely a lot more than just a "kids" round. 

Maybe the best way to bring this point home is to describe the performance of my very own 7mm-08.  It's a 24 inch barrel Rem 700 set into a bedded and free-floated Bell and Carlson stock. I have used primarily two hunting bullets in it, which I load myself. 

First is the 120 grain Barnes TTSX.  Using Winchester's new StaBall 6.5 powder, the rounds zip out the end at 3250 fps with a maximum charge (absolutely no pressure signs). When zeroed at 250 yards, it gives me a max trajectory height  of 2.4 inches at 150 yards and an impact only 3 inches low at 300 yards. It's not until 500 yards that the little 120 slows to 2060 fps with an output of 1134 foot pounds of energy. That's plenty of hit for any whitetail or mulie. If there is quarrel to be had, it's that the Barnes bullet may produce a small wound channel at this velocity. 

My personal experience using this bullet is that it easily zips through deer out to 350 yards (my furthest shot with the 120s).  My hunting partner's wife has taken several bull elk with this round, out to 250 yards, and in each case the round passed cleanly through and dispatched the critter quickly. At 300 yards the little 120 carries 1670 foot pounds of energy and velocity of 2500 fps. In my humble opinion, this is plenty for elk size critters out to 300 yards and given the Barnes fame for penetration, the 120 may be an ideal round for those limiting their ranges. 

A final asset of the 120 grain bullet is that it delivers very little recoil, making it suitable for light framed hunters and light weight firearms. 

The second bullet I have hunted with is the 150 grain Nosler Accubond Long Range bullet. It is my go-to round for deer size animals. The reason for this is that the excellent ballistics make it a wonderful round for longer ranges; and second (as strange as it may be) this round matches perfectly the ballistic reticle of the scope I have mounted on the rifle (more on that another time).

I push the 150s out the tube with a maximum powder charge of  StaBall 6.5.  In my particular rifle the least pressure signs are to be had using Winchester brass (slightly flattened primers). The 150s zip out the barrel at an average FPS of 2950.  Accuracy is easily sub-moa. My most recent group was about 2.5 inches at 400 yards. 

At 300 yards the round is traveling at 2460 fps with an energy output of 2015 fpe. At 500 yards, velocity is down to 2159 fps with energy coming in at about 1553.  That's plenty for any deer size critter, in fact, at 700 yards the bullet is still traveling at 1880 fps with an impact of 1175 fps. Nosler claims it's ABLR are good down to 1300 fpe. 

All in all, not bad for a "kids" caliber. 

 

Remington 700 in 7mm-08, 24 inch barrel, Bell and Carlson Stock

Internet forums are full of complaints about the ABLR bullets ... that they are poor at close range. All I can say from experience is that at 150 yards, out my rifle, they deliver clean pass through wounds, although large. This year's white-tail buck (a large bodied northern brute) took the round broadside but a bit low. The result was two completely severed legs, a massive gaping hole in both sides of the lower chest, and a very dead deer.

I am not sure I would recommend the ABLR bullets for larger critters like elk, and I won't be testing them out on elk anytime soon as I have a perfectly good 35 Whelen for animals that size. 

In summary, if you want a low recoil, inherently accurate, short action, delightful round to hunt with and target shoot with, I highly recommend the 7mm-08 Remington. But, I will let a member of an internet chat forum have the last say:

"A 7mm08 is boring.

Bang-Flop. Bang-wobble-Flop. Bang-Bronco kick-Flop. Bang-Spin in a tight circle- Flop. I actually had a minor bit of excitement last year when I got two wobbles on my Lope.

Reloading is boring too. Every load combo is 1 1/2" or better.

It doesn't kick outrageously, so there is no challenge there.

I have several more interesting rifles, but I cannot understand, for the life of me, why I've kept hunting with one for the last 17 years......"

Fielding the 35 Cal 200 Grain Barnes TTSX

35 Whelen Barnes 200 Grain TTSX

 

A while back I wrote that I would be trying out Barnes 200 grain TTSX bullets. With the 2020 hunting season in the rear view mirror, I can now report my real world findings.

I took a young bull elk on the last day of my elk hunt. The shot was rushed as the elk crossed a narrow cut. I knelt down, barely centered the cross-hairs and fired. The elk dropped instantly... But I was immediately disappointed in the shot. I have pulled the trigger enough times to know where my bullet should hit, and in the rushed moment I knew I had hit high. The way the elk collapsed told me I had likely caught the spine; not an ideal shot.

I approached the bull just as it took a last breaths. Upon examination it turned out that the shot was exactly where I thought it would be.... high in the shoulder.

What surprised me though, was that the elk had died quickly; no follow-up shot was necessary. Truthfully though, it was a typical marginal shot 35 Whelen kill... Just when you think you screw up, the 35 Whelen delivers a margin of forgiveness. 

Later, as we dressed the carcass, the full story of the bad shot became more clear. The Barnes bullet had struck just below the spine and had passed through both shoulder blades, stopping on the offside hide. Meat damage was very slight as is often common with the Whelen, but the injury was severe enough that the elk had died quickly.

The bullet had shed 3 peddles, but strangely, they were all clustered around the main core of the bullet, just under the hide. They clearly had broken off after the bullet had traveled through the animal.

So, here I was, once again skinning an elk taken with the 35 Whelen, and not for the first time, experiencing success despite taking a "not-so-perfect" shot. 

Conclusion: The 200 grain ttsx bullet performs just as well as the heavier ones (225,250 gr.) because you can push the 200 quite a bit faster. In my case the latest chronograph tests have yielded an average of 2935 fps. But, you have less recoil to deal with compared to the 225s or 250s.

As well, the 200, when pushed to max velocities gives you an added 75 to 100 or so yards of practical range with a bit less recoil.

Terminal performance seems to be no different on elk size critters. 

The 200 grain Barnes TTSX will be my go-to bullet for the 35 Whelen. I hope to heck that the recent liquidation of Remington doesn't spell the end of the Barnes line of bullets. 

Update: Sierra has purchased Barnes, and has stated that the line will be continued.

Update 2: Since my last writing I have had the opportunity to harvest an elk out past 200 yards. The 200 grain barnes passed through easily, but the wound channel was quite small, as is typical of Barnes Bullets once they slow down a bit. The elk trotted off but dropped in about 25 yards. The shot was perfectly placed. But, this was the furthest any moose or elk has ever gone when hit with my 35 Whelen. I am not making any conclusions from the experience, just adding it to my knowledge base.

Update 3: I have now harvested a small bull elk at 320 yards. It dropped right where it was from a high lung shot. The 200 grain Barnes TTSX zipped right through. 

35 Whelen 200 Grain Barnes TTSX

I mentioned a while back that I was going to try 200 grain Barnes TTSX bullets in my new Whelen. Usually that project would wait until spring, but given the mild temperatures (-10 C) and moderate snow cover, I have decided to begin loading and testing.

For this project I am using twice fired Hornady brass, full-length sized, and am going with IMR 8208 XBR powder.

I have chosen to initially seat the bullets to give me a 3.340" O. A. L.  Later I may try a
O. A. L. of 3.330" because the 200 grain bullets are too short to fill the entire length of the case neck at 3.340. I'm not sure if this causes a problem, but if seating deeper doesn't hurt accuracy, that's the way I might go.

Accuracy:

Groups are right around MOA, so I am happy with that. If I let the barrel completely cool between shots I can shave between a quarter to half an inch off of that.

Pressure Signs:

With Barnes Bullets I always aim for the highest velocity I can safely get without sacrificing accuracy. So far, I am more than pleased. I am a bit over Max book load with no pressure signs whatsoever, and accuracy is holding. IMR 8208 XBR is impressing me so far.

Chronograph:

Now I am a very happy boy! My average velocity is right around 2935 fps. I will do a bit more testing for accuracy, but as of now that makes for a very lethal combination with considerably more reach than the 225s I have been shooting.

Ballistics:

Muzzle - 2935 fps, 3825 efp

100 yrds - 2689 fps, 3211 efp

200 yrds - 2452 fps, 2671 efp

300 yrds - 2228 fps, 2204efp

400 yrds - 2012 fps, 1797 efp

450 yrds - 1910 fps, 1620 efp

Bonus: Recoil

The greatest surprise has been the huge difference in felt recoil between the 200 grain and 225 grain bullets. I found the 225s difficult to shoot prone (I had to make sure I wasn't bumping my glasses or brow). The 200s are a breeze to shoot by comparison.

I may be changing scopes on this rifle just to see how it does at 400 to 450 yards. I will be sure to report on how that works out if I go ahead with the scope swap.

Update:

I decided on topping the Whelen with a Swarovski Z3 4-12x50 with the Ballistic Turret. Setup went well, and adjusting the turret for my rifle went perfectly.

Testing the turret was the highlight. Using a ten inch gong and shooting prone, I scored hits every time from 300 to 450 yards all of which were clustered in a 5 inch patch on the gong.

Update 2: After more shooting to 450 yards and after considering where and how I will be hunting I have decided that my maximum range with this setup will be 400 yrds. The reason is that these big stubby bullets are super wind sensitive and I want to be well above 1800 fps at impact.

35 Whelen Bullets Review

After a decade of hunting with the 35 Whelen I have gained a fair bit of real-life experience with 35 caliber hunting bullets.  What follows is a review of the 3 bullets I have used the most; 225 grain Nosler Accubond, 250 grain Speer Hot-Cor, and the 225 grain Barnes TSX.

My review is based on real-life (or death) as it were, use of these bullets on elk and moose. Let me begin with some general comments.

I have never recovered bullets shot from the 35 Whelen where moose or elk were shot past 50 yards broadside. (my longest shot being 150 yards).  All 3 bullet types produced wide wounds but with significantly less peripheral shock damage (and meat damage) than say, a 300 Win Magnum at these ranges.  The effect on animals though, was devastating, where they either collapsed immediately or stumbled a few yards before collapse. While I generally aim for lung shots, one moose took a Speer Hot-Cor through both shoulders at 150 yards.  That bullet continued on to land somewhere in the Canadian wilderness.

I have recovered 6 bullets though, a result of head-on shots or extremely close range shots. Close range shots, which are common when hunting the big timber, are where the bullets I use were put to their most extreme test.

Speer 250 grain Hot-Core: This is an affordable and accurate round in the 35 Whelen. In my 22 inch Remington 700 I managed to get 2600 fps with this round using maximum powder charges of RL-15.  Of all the bullets I tried, for some reason my Rem 700 liked these the most, producing 2.5 inch groups at 200 yards and good velocity without any pressure signs.

At ranges over 50 yards the Hot-Cor produced pass-through shots on broadside moose.  The effect on moose was nothing short of devastating.

Inside 50 yards the Hot-Cor has issues though.  Bullets shed so much weight upon entry (a result of too much velocity) that they can't pass through. Recovered bullets had in fact, shed almost half their weight. I took one elk head on, and was surprised at the lack of penetration, despite the creature dropping like a rock.  I needed to take a point blank finishing shot broadside .... this round only penetrated to the hide on the off side.

The 250 grain Speer Hot-Cor delivers a brutal punch, but if you want exit wounds, don't expect them on close shots.  The lesson is simple ... the bullet is cheap, accurate, and once velocity drops below 2500 fps it performs well. And, even when exits are not achieved, the wound channel produced by the compacted lead and copper is enough to anchor any North American big game animal.

35 Whelen shooting 250 grain Speer Hot-Cor 20 yard head on shot; Poor Penetration

 Nosler 225 grain Accubond: The Accubond is the most expensive bullet I have tried. It proved to be very accurate (2" group at 200 yard) and I could push them to over 2600 fps. But, for the money, performance on animals was underwhelming. Pretty well everything I have said about the 250 grain Speer Hot-Cor (above), could be said about this Nosler round.  For example, I shot one bull moose at 15 yards broadside .... the Accubond killed it for sure, but the bullet didn't exit, coming to rest under the hide on the far side. Considering what I had paid for this round, I was not pleased.

In another instance I took a small bull moose head on at 20 yards ... the moose dropped like a rock, but penetration was shockingly shallow.

Recovered Accubond bullets are pretty ... perfectly formed mushrooms that retain about 75 percent of their weight.  But, I just can't get over paying a premium price for a premium bullet that doesn't perform any better than the cheap Speer Hot-Cor.

35 Whelen shooting Nosler 225 grain Accubond at 15 yards; No Exit

Barnes 225 grain TSX:  In my Whelen, the TSX is the least accurate round.  I have struggled to keep 200 yard groups inside 3".  RL-15 seems to work the best for me, although IMR 4064 gives me higher velocity. I push the TSX to 2570 fps ... any more and groups open up. I should mention that on internet forums many 35 Whelen posters report outstanding accuracy with this bullet.

Performance on game though, is where this bullet shines. For example, this past year I took a young bull elk head on and a bit high. The bullet hit shoulder bone, collar bone, and traveled down 4 ribs before coming to rest. It's the only TSX I have recovered ... the rest all lie somewhere in the brush adding copper to the soil content of Saskatchewan.

The TSX retains virtually all of its weight, yet produces wound channels that equal the Nosler Accubond and Speer Hot-Cor. I suspect that at extended ranges, say 250 to 300 yards, the lead core bullets may perform better (maybe), but I haven't had the chance to test this out.  Most of my kills are within 150 yards.

This coming year I plan on loading up some Barnes 200 grain TTSX bullets. Ballistically at least, they may actually outperform the 225 grain TSX in energy delivered down range, and maybe penetration. As of this writing, I have no idea how fast I will be able to push them or how accurate they will prove to be.

35 Whelen Bullets from Left to Right in order of least to most weight retention: 250 gr Speer Hot-Cor, 250 gr Speer Hot-Cor, 250 gr Speer Hot-Cor, 225 gr Nosler Accubond, 225 gr Nosler Accubond, 225 gr Barnes TSX

Summary: Years of hunting all big game species available in Saskatchewan has provided me with a vast informal bank of experience using a variety of bullets.  After all is said and done, I have become a die hard fan of Barnes bullets ... at least for shots ranging inside 300 yards. My hunting partners use Barnes bullets as well, again, because experience has demanded that they do.

I suspect that those who regularly kill big game at long ranges would not agree ... but long range hunting just isn't in my skill set, so it's irrelevant to me. As well, I have read that in the smaller calibers, say 6mm, that Barnes bullets produce too small a wound channel ... but that's just what I have read.

In my opinion, based on real-world hunting experience, you can't go wrong with Barnes bullets in your 35 cal if you don't intend on shooting over 300 yards, or wherever velocity falls below 1800 fps. If I ever get the chance to take an elk or moose at over 200 yards, I will be sure to let you know how the Barnes performed.

35 Whelen 2

Last summer I was browsing an online firearms site and came across a new, in the box, Remington CDL Special Edition 35 Whelen. After a bit of dickering the rifle was on its way to my home.

The photographs of the Whelen in the ad had looked great, so I was really anxious to see it... And sure enough, the rifle was exactly what I had hoped it would be.

I love quality wood stock rifles for their look and feel. The only problem is that wood stocks are not as well suited for hunting as are synthetic stocks; not if you hunt like I do. After a couple of seasons my wood stock rifles are chipped and scratched... Miles of cross country hunting in thick difficult terrain does that. Even worse, the temperature and moisture extremes I put my rifles through make it hard for most wood stocks, even pillar bedded and free floated ones, to hold zero. I speak from experience.

So it is, that even though my new Whelen was absolutely lovely, I decided to remove the stock and instead drop the action and barrel into a Bell and Carlson black synthetic stock. I free floated and bedded the action, and just like that I had a new, not as pretty, 35 Whelen. I topped it with a Nikon Monarch 3 2.5-10x50 scope and headed to the range.

35 Whelen Remington SF action in Bell and Carlson Stock

To my surprise, and unlike my other Whelen, this one booted me fairly hard each time I fired a 225 grain TSX Barnes down the tube (max charge). The light weight of the action and straight stock created a bit more recoil than I had expected. But, what was I to expect when pushing 225 grain projectiles down the bore at just under 2700 fps.

The rifle has completed its first hunting season and so far the elk cutlets from the spike elk I dropped taste just fine. And, after harsh temperature and moisture extremes (snow and sleet soaked action versus warm truck versus hot dry days in the field) the rifle holds zero perfectly.

If I have a beef, it's the recoil, but then I am getting a bit on in years and heavy hard kicking calibers like the 338 win mag just aren't my thing anymore. In the end, this Whelen delivers devastating down range performance on elk size critters out to 300 yards with recoil similar to calibers such as the 30-06. In my case the straight stock and light weight make for stout recoil, especially when shooting prone.

I will be trying a few different load work ups this year and will let you know how that turns out.

Merry Christmas and may you keep venison on the table this coming year.

Kwik Klip Conversion

My 35 Whelen Remington 700 Classic project is nearing an end.  What started out as a somewhat rough Rem 700 Classic has slowly turned into what just might be my all time favorite rifle. You can follow the progression here, and here.

As a final touch I decided to replace the standard internal magazine and hinge-plate with a removable magazine. My choice of conversion was the Kwik Klip conversion for Long Action Rem 700; mainly because it was easy to obtain and most of the reviews I read were positive.

Kwik Klip for Rem 700 Long Action

I placed my order through T. E. C Trade Ex Canada Inc. I placed my order on a Monday and received the kit in one week. The price was the cheapest I could find in Canada.

During installation I ran into an immediate problem because the Bell and Carlson stock needed a bit of sanding in order for the bottom metal to fit. After a bit of work things came together well with a surprisingly snug fit despite there being a bit of space around the rear.   (See photo)  The kit comes with shims that I used to level the kit with the bottom of the stock. (the photo shows the fit before shims were used)

Next came the inevitable ammunition feed test ... which didn't go well. The first 2 rounds fed perfectly, but the last always slipped downward and off of the bolt face. A quick check online solved the problem though ... all it took was a slight bending open of the top of the magazine housing. The cartridges now fed perfectly.

Overall I am pleased. The Kwik Klip metal has a shine, which matches my Remington bluing, and the basic fit and finish of the kit is good.

The conversion to removable magazine is the final change I envision making to the Whelen. It's been an enjoyable journey.

Kwik Klip Long Action installed in Bell and Carlson Stock

Rainy Weather Bull

The first few days of the 2018 hunting season started out wet..... and I mean really wet and cold. Misty, cold, sleet layden weather had settled in for a few days prior to opening day of elk season. My hunting partner and I had decided to start the season with an attempt to ambush elk as they either came to, or left a corn field. For two mornings and evenings we tried different locations, saw lots of deer, and a few coyotes, but not a hair nor tine of any elk. And this, despite the fact that the corn field was loaded with elk tracks. The worst part was that the wind was up each day, and it constantly drizzled near freezing rain. For whatever reason, the elk that had been frequenting the field had moved on... including a decent 6 by 6 which had been caught on trail cam.

If the elk weren't going to make it easy, we decided to change tactics to search, and hopefully score.  We took one of our favorite trails which wound its way into the hilly semi-forested country several miles beyond the corn.

We made contact pretty quick in the form of several elk bugling within close proximity to each other. We spotted a small bull bugling on an open hillside about 700 yards out.

We cow called and bugled several times, and almost immediately got answers from several bulls, but it soon became apparent that the herd bull was pushing his harem further away. This forced us to pursue.

An hour later found us on a scrub covered hill within 300 yards of the herd which was somewhere on or over the hill opposite us. Visibility was obscured by clumps of pine and willow, but fairly large gaps gave good glimpses of the opposite slope. We paused to cautiously scan the slope but as soon as we did, the bugling from the herd seemed to be still moving away. The end of legal daylight hunting was approaching, which was unfortunate, because the remaining half hour we had was not enough to launch a stalk on the herd bull.

We decided to try calling.  My partner gave a long location bugle which I followed up with several pleading cow calls. Almost immediately a spike bull appeared in a gully below us, and began working his way around the wet bottom. And then, right on his heels came a 3 or so year old bull with funky misshapen antlers. I liked the look of them.

That bull soon vanished in the willows which lined the bottom of the gully. He splashed right through the water and after about a minute the brush on our side of the gully began to shake and snap as he raked his antlers on the trees.

I gave a soft cow call and up he came.... straight to us.

"I'm taking him!" I whispered.

The bull just kept walking strait up the slope, winding in and out among the willows. At thirty yards he emerged completely from the scrub and paused. I had my Nikon Prostaff 5 dialed down to 2.5 magnification and the safety off, so all it took was a lift of the rifle, a moment to aim, and the 35 Whelen thundered. The bull collapsed as if all four feet had been cut out from under him.

The other bulls in the herd kept calling as if nothing had happened, but I didn't care, I was headed down the slope the short distance to my elk.

He was about the size I expected.... not very big by trophy standards, but the experience and the unique shape of his antlers made him a trophy to me.

My newly refurbished Whelen had its first kill... and I was delighted.

Taken at 30 yards with my 35 Whelen